Miguel de Lucas has devoted much of his life to magic in all its forms, from shows and lectures that have left even the most skeptical spectators perplexed, to books and television programs that have brought magic into every home. He has achieved all this without neglecting his role as a teacher, as he has also found time to obtain degrees in psychology and education, the latter enabling him to teach at various education faculties.
On the occasion of the III Congress on Rural Education “Brilla,” held this time in Teruel, we spoke with him about the relationship between magic, education, and mental health. Three issues that, as he himself has told us, have changed his way of understanding life.
Let’s go back to the beginning. Which came first, magic or education?
Neither of them was my passion when I was little, but I grew up in an environment where my parents were very involved in education. Later, when I started working as a camp counselor, I realized how much magic could capture children’s attention. That’s when I decided to get formal training at a magic school, and teaching came later. [After graduating with a degree in teaching] I went straight into teaching at university, never in primary or secondary school.
First you studied at Juan Tamariz’s magic school and then you enrolled in teaching. Why did you choose two such different things?
Because, apart from fulfilling my dreams, I also had to fulfill my parents’ dreams. My parents wanted their son to have a career, although in the end I ended up with three. One of them was teaching, specializing in physical education, which I really liked and came naturally to me. Besides, during the teaching degree itself, I was already thinking about tricks I could do as a magician.
And how do you currently manage to combine those two passions?
I use magic more as a communication tool with teachers, which is what we’re going to do in a little while, because my students are already older. Before, when I was a classroom teacher at the University of Salamanca, in the Faculty of Education at USAL, I did teach children and was able to use magic with them. Now I’m at an online university, UNIR, and it’s a little harder to use magic, but whenever I can, I talk about it as a methodology. Just as theater or new technologies are talked about as something innovative and disruptive that catches students’ attention, magic is also a metaphor for innovation.
What has your experience as a magician and teacher brought you over the years?
Being a magician changed my life a little bit. In fact, I’m going to share this with all the teachers now.
Having suffered from mental health issues for a while and wanting to devote myself to the world of magic meant that, during a very important stage of my life, I had no choice but to apply the techniques that magicians use on stage to my own life in order to move forward, breathe, get out of the hospital, and see the light again. That’s what magic has given me. And then education, as well as seeing it as a way of life, has taught me that the new generations are coming on strong. That’s why you always have to keep up to date with everything. But, of course, there comes a time when the passage of time overtakes you, and then you have to accept that you can no longer keep up and hire someone who can to teach you.
In your book “Hay un mago en ti” (There’s a magician in you), you talk about how magic helped you overcome this mental health problem. Tell me a little more about that.
It all happened one day when I went to do one of the performances. As always, I was crying on the inside and smiling on the outside. It’s a bit of a complex phrase, but also very interesting. That day was the first time in my life that I became aware of my own unconscious. I was feeling really bad, but at that moment my dream was still bigger than my fear. That dream, which was a little bigger than my fear, allowed me to do the magic show. But there was a moment during that performance, I don’t know why, when I started to look at all the people around me and saw that everyone was smiling, that everyone was having a good time. And I said to myself, “Well, this can’t be. It’s not possible that everyone is having a good time when I’m feeling like shit.” From that moment on, I started thinking about what I was doing on stage and how I could apply it to my everyday life. At my next session with my psychologist, I told her what had happened to me while performing, and she said, “Well, in my 30 years in this profession, no one has ever told me anything like that. It might be interesting for you to start looking into that.” Then I realized that magicians, every time we perform, try to make the world shine around us. And I decided to use the energy I was using to make everyone around me shine to make myself shine. And how can you do that? Well, by stopping talking badly, for example; by stopping punishing myself with bad words and adjectives; and by stopping inventing fears that never happened. I remember that 20 years ago, I had 150,000 different fears, and 20 years later, nothing I imagined has ever happened. Nothing, not even close.
I also learned a lot from magic. Magic always has a little secret that has to be hidden somehow. And this is done when the audience’s emotions are running high. What does this mean? It means that when emotions are running high, intelligence is low. In anxious and depressive processes, emotions are usually high. I don’t like to talk about positive or negative emotions, but emotions that are less healthy make us so aware of everything except ourselves. I’m not really into Mr. Wonderful quotes, but it’s true that the past is always related to depression and the future to anxiety, and the moment that is happening right now is the present moment. When you’re depressed—and I mean depressed, diagnosed with severe depression, not just feeling sad, which is how many people use the term depression incorrectly—you have to try to realize where you are. I always like to say that magic is a combination of psychology and psychiatry. I experienced this firsthand and it has helped me a lot. I’ve been sharing this message for quite some time and I see that it’s something that resonates deeply with people and that they identify with.
“Although university teaches you, I believe that learning doesn’t stay within the university walls: it’s here, right now, in what we can learn from each other.”
You describe yourself as a people magician. Does this description have anything to do with what you mentioned earlier?
Yes, absolutely. At the end of the day, people are the most important thing. In a company, the person is the most important thing, both the customer and the employee. In a school, if the teacher is doing well, the children will do better, and that will be reflected in their relationship. If you, as a journalist, are happy, you will go to work with more enthusiasm. That’s how people are, and for me, that’s the basis of everything. In fact, I don’t do as many entertainment shows anymore. These are lectures, but I always try to make people feel just as good at them.
Do you think your training as a teacher has helped you connect more easily with the audience?
I think that came from studying psychology, and especially from my PhD. During that process, I spent a lot of time researching the application of magic in people’s lives. Anyway, even though university teaches you, I think learning doesn’t stay in the university buildings: it’s here, right now, in what we can learn from each other. It will also be on stage in a little while. For example, we just came from lunch, and for me, it was like being at university, because I was sitting next to someone who told us some things and across from someone else who told us other super interesting things. For me, that moment was incredible. But it’s undeniable that university does give you a little scientific background.
It’s common knowledge how difficult it is to work in show business in Spain. Have you encountered any difficulties during this time? Or have you ever considered retiring because you thought it wasn’t worth it?
No, the truth is that I’ve never had that feeling of giving up. The only thing I’ve ever encountered are a few bumps in the road that have nothing to do with the artistic side, but more with the bureaucratic or fiscal side, which affects all of us entrepreneurs and makes the magic disappear a little. But in my case, perhaps the moment when I thought about throwing in the towel was during the time when I was depressed and had to keep performing. For me, it was hell. Sometimes I couldn’t even stand up on stage. But of course, I couldn’t give it up, because it was my only way of earning money at the time.
Miguel de Lucas
For the past 10 years, you have also been bringing magic to countries such as Haiti and Bolivia. How did this initiative come about?
The projects are always international collaborations with NGOs. In the case of Bolivia, it was with the Fundación Hombres Nuevos, founded by Father Nicolás Castellanos, may he rest in peace. They asked me to collaborate in using magic to attract gang members from a number of neighborhoods and get them to become part of the educational community. I thought it was a very interesting idea. And in the case of Port-au-Prince, in Haiti, it was a collaboration with the International Red Cross to help, also through magic, children who had been left with nothing on the streets, and to teach them how to wash their hands and prevent infections.
Finally, I wanted to ask you about your alter ego. On stage you are Miguel de Lucas, but once you step off the stage, how different are you from your everyday self?
There’s quite a difference. Not in the important things, but in the more superficial things, yes. Because I’m actually quite a shy person, I don’t really like being around people, and the stage is a different environment. It’s not that I’m antisocial, far from it, but it’s true that I am a little more shy. Although, in the important things, I think that in the values I try to convey, I am the same on stage as I am off stage.
And where do you find magic in everyday life?
In my children, in my three children, in my wife, and in my home. Nowhere else. They are fundamental.
